'Cougar Town' Interviews

Emmanuel Itier: Do you have any theories as to why it’s a big deal when a woman dates a younger guy and not a big deal when a guy dates a younger woman?

Bill Lawrence: It is ultimately still a sexist and misogynistic society. We did some research for the shows, because it’s a show about 40-year-old women, which is obviously in my wheelhouse, but that seems like they are written by guys. Actually, I think this may be the one comedy on primetime that now has more female writers on the staff than male, but I don’t know why. I think it’s weird.  I think it’s weird when Michael Douglas and Gwyneth Paltrow do a movie together, it’s fine, and when Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds do a movie, I read the word “cougar” in about a hundred reviews. I don’t know if it should be a negative word or empowering word.  What we were hoping to do, titling the show Cougar Town, was set the bar so low, hoping that occasionally people would watch it and go, “Wow, this is not as horrible as I thought it would be.” So that’s what we were shooting for.

EI: Courteney, whose tummy is in the close-ups?  Because when you flash, you are obviously still toned and not…

BL: Can I tell this? I’m doing it anyway.  I’m sorry.  And then I’ll let you talk.

Courteney Cox Arquette: Absolutely.

BL: Courteney said that she was not going to talk about this.  God may strike me dead.  That is Courteney Cox in every single shot in the shower scene, and she didn’t want to talk about it.  At one point after we filmed it, she said, “I can’t believe you made me do this,” but she can take it from there…

CC: Thanks, Bill. Actually, that is me, and I’ve been doing that forever. David is always saying to me, “Courteney, please put your shirt down and stop showing everybody your belly.”  For some reason, once I had a kid, I was fascinated by that whole thing, so I do that, and I do have that skin. When I flashed, I was lit really well. People don’t look the way they do on TV in real life.

BL: One of the other traps of this show that we have to do is you can’t have Courteney Cox, possibly the most beautiful 40-year-old woman in the world, complaining about her appearance.  Courteney has always been really candid about how she works at it and about the smoke and mirrors of Hollywood.  You said to me that, when you see a picture of you, you’ve had a team work on you.

CC: Oh, yeah, totally.

BL: But swear on the Bible, that’s Courteney at the beginning.  Tell your friends.

EI: Bill, you joke about the bar being set low, but do you see it at all as an obstacle?  I’ve already read a few things – people, not having seen the show, saying how anti-feminist it is or whatever…

BL: I’ve heard both sides of it — being a misogynistic word and a word of empowerment.  I think it’s just a word. Courteney, what would you say if someone asked you if you are a cougar or not?

CC: I’ve been blazing that trail for ten years.

Busy Philipps: Courteney and my husband are the same age.

CC: David is much younger than me.  I think it’s great to be a cougar, if that’s what they are called. I just don’t know what the term is for a man who dates a younger woman.

EI:  A man. [Laughs]

CC: Did you say a “manther”?

BL: I think a trap of this show is, in the modern landscape of television, obviously, that title is intended to be a noisy title.  It makes people take notice.  The high side is that I think people are aware of the show.  The low side is that if I’m not careful, it has the connotation of a Saturday Night Live sketch.  If this show were to be, every week, about “What young man is Courteney going to sleep with?” that’s the Samantha from Sex and the City show, and I don’t think people would respond to it, and I wouldn’t respond to it.  In fact, it’s not the show. One of the things I really make an effort to do is get some future episodes out to people pretty early so they can see them.

BL: He’s gone. He’s not in the second episode. I’ll tell you what this show is about.  My wife and I are both in our 40s.  Courteney is. [Laughs] And we have reached the stage in our lives that some of our friends are newly single.  It’s just a reality. There’s a pull there. What I really was interested in is these three people here, and Courteney, in real life, has a lot of friends that are much younger than she is.  I’m sorry.  I like the pull of a woman who has been married since she was 19 and has a 17-year-old child and is single for the first time in her 40s, between her married friend, who has really come to depend on the fact that this is her anchor — she has a new baby.  We are best friends that play Scrabble, drink wine and hang out, and her younger friend, who wants nothing more than her best friend to finally be in a place that you can come out and see the world with me.  To add to that, what I think is a universal theme is the fear for someone like Jules or Courteney of being judged just by wanting to go out and have some fun.  I think that’s the show.

EI: Some of the dresses and stuff and the looks of the places are a little garish, and I’m wondering if the Real Housewives franchise or any reality shows informed the look of the show or the content in any way.

BL: No.  The only thing we really looked at, to tell you the truth, is a small town in Florida — just the colors and the way people dress there.  We based this loosely… I worry sometimes. I really do.  You guys know me, and I’ll be candid — this was a show that was not in my wheelhouse, originally, of what to write about.  But one of the things we are using as an influence is I’m 40, about to be 41, and my dad is only 62 and my mom is 64, and they have roots in rural Florida. Courteney’s son is 17 — she’s 40 in the show.  So we are really basing it around, if you look at Winter Park, Florida, or the Gulf Coast of Florida, some of the small towns out there that are along the water, there’s kind of gentrification going on.  That’s where we got the look from.

EI: When I first saw the name, I thought, “Oh God, not another reality show about an older woman dating a younger guy.” And the word “cougar” is almost like a predator.  Why did they come up with this name?  Why not “Tiger Town” or “Panther Town,” or something else?

BL: I’m up for “Tiger Town” if we could agree as a group.  No…

CC: I like “Tiger…”

BL: I don’t want the business side of this to come into the discussion too much, but right now, I don’t think it would even be in the lexicon if the show is called “Forty and Single” or “Getting To Have Your Twenties.”  I think that, right now, the hardest thing in network television specifically is to make noise and get people to sample something.  So the roll of the dice I’ve made — and I think you are aware, just as I am, that it’s a risky roll of the dice — is that the title is noisy and that people will be aware of this show.  The downside of the risk is if there’s a group of people that say, “Hey, I’m not going to watch this because the title bums me,” all I can do is cross my fingers and say, “Hey, if I execute it well…” I’ve told people before, when I think I’ve done crappy stuff, I really believe that with the subsequent scripts we’ve been doing and the reshoots in the pilot, that it’s a show that works and it’s creatively satisfying. I would hope that a year from now, this show is called Cougar Town and no one cares, but they know of it.  We don’t call women “cougars” in it.  We certainly don’t use the word beyond the unbelievably big cheat that the high school mascot is a cougar.

EI: Dan Byrd’s character really suffers much humiliation. Will any of that humiliation be cut from the pilot?  Will there be even more humiliation?

BL: I know exactly what you are talking about.  There are two different things going on here.  One is from a very specific frame of reference. I don’t like making stuff up, and I also don’t like indicting my parents in front of a room of strangers, but one of the things that was typical to my childhood was when I was 18, my dad was 38 and still young.  I had a moment like this, not as much on television, and I found it comedic and uncomfortable. I think that Courteney plays the comedy of discomfort incredibly well.  It’s also a risky topic.  One of the things, I’ve got to be honest, that I didn’t expect – I’ve talked to some old friends up here — is I’m a TV fan, and I’m watching shows like True Blood right now, which is…

BP: Fast.

BL: …an awesome show, but there are people having orgies, and blood, and Entourage – the shows you guys like to write about too — Dexter…that really push the line. I talked to my movie agent, believe it or not, who said, “Well, this TV show would probably be rated PG-13 as a film.”  So the only thing I was not ready for was people that I’ve really worked with here before saying, ”Hey, is this inappropriate for television?  Is it too dicey?”  And it was really good for me to hear because I think it’s obviously a noisy pilot, but I think the answer is “no,” as long as you don’t drift into the trap of being inappropriate for the sake of being inappropriate, and being edgy just to go, ”Hey, look what we did on network television.”  I’m glad it’s on at 9:30.  I’m glad ABC is going to have a warning on it, and I think it’s a real dangerous area if we fall into it too much, but I also think it is the core — especially in the pilot episode — of a character that’s going out into the world for the first time with that burden of still having the responsibilities of being an adult.

EI: But also even with his dad being the janitor shirtless, the character just gets shamed and humiliated, and that is funny. The question is how much will he continue…is the pilot just to set up his life?  Will he get some moments of triumph?

BL: I think he has to. I told Courteney that this is a show that could be high-risk, high-reward, and she went for it. I rarely have this much trepidation because usually the only person I could let down is myself. I want to make it work for her. What you’re just talking about is just another one of those traps. If this was a show about, “Hey, let’s watch a well-played character by Dan get embarrassed week-in or week-out,” or “Let’s watch inappropriate things happening,” I think it would fail miserably.  But if I can make it about the characters and make it about the relationships, I think it’s really got a chance, so hopefully there will be a number of triumphs for young Dan Byrd.

EI: Christa, did you have your choice of which character you would play?

Christa Miller: Yes.

EI: What did you have to do to get the role?

CM: I did get offered Courteney’s role, and I felt I didn’t want to work that hard.  No…

Kevin Biegel: You were also offered Dan’s role too.

CM: I was offered everybody’s role.  No… I think, when Bill was writing it with Kevin, it started gleefully. If I was ever in a cranky mood or being snarky to him, writing down little things that I would say, so I think that character kind of came out of that. I was lucky enough that ABC let me play a character that my husband wrote for me.

BL: It’s not totally me being a guy, right?  The opening shot…I’m going to get in trouble for this.  I don’t care.  The opening scene from the pilot, my wife had just had a baby, and I walked by our bathroom…

CM: Not really.

BL: And this was where the opening scene of the show came by.  After we had had our first child, she was looking at herself in the mirror after she got out of the shower. She just looked for a second, and then she went, ”F*ck.”  And I just thought [laughs] that was so funny. By the way, I just ruined my weekend. [Laughs]

EI: The title is called Cougar Town, but it’s all about dating.  Is there a possibility she might date someone her own age or older?

BL: Not only is there a possibility, the show is already outlined.  Yes, 100% because, if you watch the show, I think that’s what Courteney’s character is trying to deal with — is we all make… You guys talk about the reality shows. Generally, the zeitgeist right now is to make fun of them — to make fun of those women that are so age-inappropriate that they would  just say “the hell with everything.” Courteney’s character is somebody that sees that as a trap. So yes, without a doubt, that will be part of the show.

EI:  Courteney, the last show we saw you in was Dirt, which was way different from this.  Are you more comfortable back in the comedy wheelhouse?  Is that something you were looking for — another comedy?  And how do you feel about doing this as opposed to something like…

CC: I definitely wanted to do another comedy for sure.  I was really excited about it.  And then I met Bill and I met Kevin, and it just was the perfect idea.

EI: I also wanted to find what you related to about her.  When you turned 40, did you have any of that kind of like, “Oh my God, life’s over” type of thing, especially here in Hollywood where things are so youth-oriented.  What went through your head?

CC: When I turned 40, I was laying in bed with Coco.  I just had her two days before, so I actually was going, “Oh my God, how am I going to give this back to someone?” [Laughs] No, I was really depressed.  ”Now I have to actually take care of her.”  No, being 40, I think, is hard for women, but I didn’t experience it until later. What went through my head is it’s always hard.  Getting older is harder anyway, but living in Hollywood, it’s exceptionally hard doing it.  But what I love about this character is everything is real.  It would be really scary if I wasn’t married and I had to go back out there again, and it is true most men date women that are younger. Or I could go out with someone older and… It’s a hard world, and I think they deal with it beautifully.

BL: One of the women that works on the show now is a lady named Mara Brock Akil, who created a bunch of good shows, and in one of the parts of the reshoot, Courteney’s character says, ”The bummer about being single at 40 is that all the single men out there are either broken or gay or getting younger girls.” I think that is probably the dilemma we see with our friends sometimes that are out there and taking their swings.

EI: Courteney and Josh, can you guys talk about the relationship you have on the show?  Is it going to be completely adversarial and snarky all the time, or is there a little more to it than that?  Have they known each other for a long time, even?

CC: They have been neighbors for a while. I’m listing his house.  I’m the broker, and I want to get involved with him.  I want him to like me, as I want everyone to.

BL: Are you talking about you or the character? [Laughs]

CC: Me. Were you not talking about me? [Laughs] And he just can’t be bothered, and I don’t know what’s going to happen next.

Josh Hopkins: I think they’re adversarial characters, but that’s just a jump-off point.  If that’s all it ever was, that would be a bad sign for the show.

BL: You guys have seen so many TV shows, you know there’s an element to those two characters that has a romantic undercurrent.  What I was trying to do was figure out a way with Kevin that we could do a will-they-or-won’t-they story without being trapped the way you are by that conceit, which is when they finally hook up, it’s over, or why are they not getting together?  I think this is a cool arena, because his character is recently divorced, hers is recently divorced, after long marriages, and both people, you’ll find out, got really stung.  So for us, what was interesting was to create two characters that have a chemistry and have an attraction, but neither one of them is looking to be in a real relationship right now because of what they just came out of.

EI: Courteney, it was announced last week that Jennifer Aniston is making a movie called Pumas, which sounds very similar to your show.  You guys are obviously great friends.  You must have discussed the strange coincidence that’s going on here.  Can you discuss that a little bit?

BP: Yeah, she totally ripped it off. [Laughs]

CC: I did know about her movie.  I’m not sure exactly what the storyline is other than it’s probably a woman. I guess pumas are in their 30s, I think.  Isn’t that right? Jaguars are in there…

BL: I don’t know what animal terminology [laughs] is out there right now.

CC: I do. Jaguars are in their 50s, and saber-tooths go right into the 60s.

CM: I thought panthers were 30.

BP: Who are women in their 20s dating?

CC: Jennifer loves the show.  She knew about it, so I’m not sure…

EI: Is there any chance that she may show up on the show like she did last year? [Laughs]

CC: She’s a good friend and I know she loves the show.  I’m not going to say she is because I don’t know.

BL: Come on, he wants an answer. [Laughs]

CC: Well, you write her a character, I’m sure she’ll be glad to do it.

EI: Bill, how old is Courteney’s character supposed to be?

BL: Fortyish. I’d say she’s 41.

BL: Yeah, she didn’t have the kid right away.

EI: Thirty-six — sorry.

BL: In the show, when you see the story, Dan here is playing an 18-year-old kid on the show.  She got married at 19, got pregnant…whenever the math works out. [Laughs]

EI: Okay.  That works better. Were you guys talking about this when Courteney was on Scrubs?

BL: Yeah, and this is a testament to Courteney — we got to do essentially a tryout. We had both been talking about it, and I’m a pain in the ass.  Courteney’s not.  We thought we’d do a little tryout on Scrubs and see what it’s like to work together, and she is the easiest and most fun person to work with, and is the best relationship I’ve ever had with any female. [Laughs]

EI: Digging that hole.

BL: No, it was a tryout. It went really well and we had a blast, so we just thought we’d go on from there.

EI: Ben Silverman? Come on…

BL: Ben Silverman?  No. No.

EI: Yes.

BL: No, not Ben.  Ben is not trying to destroy television — someone else is.  No, I’m joking. [Laughs] No.  You know what, man?  Ben is… What do you think?  I think Ben Silverman is a great producer and was born to be a producer.  How’s that?

EI: In the current state of NBC…

BL: Can you say “off the record”? [Laughs]

CM: Bill, don’t say anything more.

EI: The current state of NBC having to give five hours over to Leno…?

BL: I think that’s really interesting.  I think it’s sad for scripted TV, but I think there’s a no-lose situation.  You know they’re going to — whether it’s because of cost-cutting or because they pull a number — be able to say it’s successful.  What worries me is that I want to see more forward-thinking.  What I love, when I hear Steve talking, and what I love about ABC right now — I’ve got to be honest — forget about this show.  I took it upon myself to watch the development, and there’s some good stuff.  I mean Modern Family is a kickass sitcom, okay?  It’s really, really good.  I think Flash Forward is really good.  I think Eastwick is really good.  And I just like people to be hopefully putting stuff out there that has a shelf-life and that gets people invested again.  I’m hoping that you guys — and it doesn’t have to be this one — rally behind a comedy.

CC: Yes, it does. [Laughs]

BL: We need a comedy to pop, so I want ABC to crush this year.  I think they got the best slate out there.

EI: Bill, to follow on what you’ve said, you seemed almost apologetic when you talk about how noisy the title is and the premise, and you seem to be sort of steeling yourself for some criticism about the subject matter.  Do you think you have to be that way for a broadcast comedy these days?  Do you think the stuff you’ve done in the past would just fall between the cracks?

BL: I think television is about execution. I think it’s the weirdest thing that we all like to talk about the idea, and the truth is my favorite TV shows are ideas I’ve seen 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 times, and the ones I love are the ones that are executed really well. I’m not very good at a lot of things, but I think I’m fairly good at this, and I think Courteney is really good at this.  And this cast, I really think they’re fantastic. So I think we’re going to execute the show well, and I think people are going to find it and respond to it. I think the economic situation and the amount of money it costs to make a TV show puts the pressure on you to have people be aware fast.  When my parents live in a house that they have 120 channels, and you know, if you’re making a sitcom for $2 million an episode, people better know about it and tune in to check it out.  The best thing about the world we live in right now is there are tons of opportunities to create and do television — cable, Internet, whatever. The worst thing is you have a limited window to make a splash. I’m not apologetic.  If I thought that the title or the show was unfunny or egregious, I’d change it or I would have done something different.  I like it.  It makes me chuckle. I’ll get a tattoo on my chest right now, if you want to go out to a bar later or something, Cougar Town.  And then, six months from now, I’m like, “That’s the biggest mistake I have ever…”

CC: Not six months later — one week.

BL: No, I’m proud of it and I’m sticking with it.

EI:  If my addition is right, Ian, you’re 45; Dan, you’re 24;  Josh, you’re 39; and, Brian, you’re 40.  So would you date a woman older than you?

Brian Von Holt: Yes, and I have.

Ian Gomez: I’m married to an older women.

BL: My wife is much, much, much, much older than I am. [Laughs] What are the current ages of Brian’s and Josh’s girlfriends?

CC: I like it.  I like the question. [Laughs]

BVH: Thirty-four.

JH: Twenty-six. [Laughs] I’m doing research.